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Another so called feminist blog colonized

I just got kicked off Woman Space, Heart's website, for daring to say the Muslim religion is a threat to all women and is evil because of its treatment of women. She has a big post up about Muslims and how they are a wonderful people and great benefactors of humanity. After she said I disrespected her by saying they are oppressors and their religion is evil, and she said that she would ban me if I dared to argue about it, I sent her this post below by Pagan Power, which she refused to publish.

I want you to read it in full on the Pagan Power website and start to understand the threat.

Woman Space is already an Islamic colony where infidels are silenced, banned which is killing on the internet. In Muslim culture no dissent is tolerated.

Heart chooses to believe that Muslims are an oppressed and vulnerable people in the US and that I was disrespecting her for challenging her and them on the issue. This, in a country where a person of Muslim descent is about to be elected president to all our detriment after a shameful sexist campaign where sexist tactics defeated a superior woman. BO's mother was tricked into a polygamous marriage with a Muslim which is a common Muslim practice. Many Muslims marry citizens in countries which they know will not recognize the woman in the village they came from as their wife. Yet they still treat both women as their wives.

In Switzerland the Muslims wear tee shirts emblazoned with the number “2030,” the year they intend to have procreated so profusely that they will be able to take over the Swiss government simply by voting it out of existence; in Canada talks are under discussion about whether to let Muslims live under Islamic law. Everywhere Muslims immigrate, they bring their multiple wives and laws against birth control and seek to become the majority and supplant the indigenous culture. It is why they make the right of return part of their demands in talks with Israel which wisely limits their population inside Israel.

In Europe where Muslims have migrated and maintain their own communities, Jews have been hidden and tortured in those communities, whole neighborhoods hearing the screams, coming to watch and doing nothing. Feminist have been criminally prosecuted in France and England for speaking out against Muslim culture and practices. They have been fined and their books banned. This, while the European domestic violence shelters are crowded with Muslim women.

Heart and others who accept the left's propaganda about Muslims are the kind of fools who do not understand the patriarchy and how lethal it is. No big deal except they self label as feminists when women's rights are NOT their priority.

Heart became motivated to protest the treatment of Muslims because her mixed race son is inconvenienced on airplanes as if the rest of us are not hassled. I am so inconvenienced on planes, I take trains and that is what her son can do. Heart's son's comfort and privilege is her priority, not the safety of everyone else on the plane and not the Muslim practices which slave women.

Muslims are a threat in every country they immigrate to and from - they bring their anti-semitic hatreds, their misogyny, their separatism, their gender apartheid and their dhimmi tactics against the infidels which include a moral threatening outrage over imaginary and legitimate criticism. They cry victim to shame and guilt trip the people they victimize. We must defend our democracy from these Muslim war tactics or we will be their victims.

Obama used these tactics successfully against the Clintons by calling them racists every time they made any factual statement the BO campaign could twist to their advantage. People had to know what they were doing when they jumped on that race baiting band wagon but they wanted BO to win more than they cared about fairness. Now, in order to negate her negatives, the BO campaign is trying to make MOB out to be a victim of the very sexism they used to defeat Hillary. They have a smear website which spreads their propaganda and is designed to smear those who make legitimate negative observations about Barack Obama. His backers proudly wear teeshirts with the name Hussein to proclaim their solidarity with his Muslim heritage.

If legitimate fear and loathing of fascist Muslim culture and religious practices can be made to seem racist, soon the hate laws will cover Muslims. Then Muslims will use these laws the way abusers use injunctions against their victims. The way that group of Muslims baited authorities on that airplane where they prayed in the aisles, asked for seat belt extenders, went to the bathroom in groups and generally tried to provoke a lawsuit.

I struggle --- constantly struggle with a hatred that is growing in my own heart, not toward Muslims who I coldly recognize as my enemy, but at those who pretend to stand for women while protecting slave masters who seek to dominate us by overwhelming numbers or by force. Muslims as individuals are both good and bad but it is the women I am concerned with and about - those who feel a desire to be their own boss and oppressed by their religion, practices and culture. The correct thing to do is to help the decent people leave the Muslim faith and find a way to live free. Very hard but battered women do it, all abuse survivors do it. You cannot live free and stay Muslim. This attitude must become part of our foreign policy in that we insist on secular political systems in countries we support. Because the Muslim religion does not tolerate nonbelievers, we nonbelievers must not tolerate the Muslim religion to gain power in our democracy which is vulnerable to it.

It seems so awful to these patriarchal defenders when someone says this religion, whether FLDS or Muslim is pure crap - there is no redeeming value - women have to reject it and help others leave it. That is original sin among so called progressives who tell women we must be tolerant because that is superior to our rights. I just wish they would stop self labeling as feminist. It is a despicable tactic used to confuse and divide but one often used. See, Feminists for Life.

Now read the latest tactic from the excellent research of Pagan Power and then go to the website to read the whole thing.


Has the Whole World Gone Mad?
Does the practice of female genital mutilation concern you? What about child marriage? Stoning female adulterers to death? Well don’t bring it up to the UN Human Rights Council because such talk is forbidden there. What say you? You mean it is verboten to ask the UN Human Rights Council to intervene in these barbaric practices? And sadly the answer is yes. Why? Because the practices are a part of a radical Islamic law and thus protected under the auspices of the United Nations.

UN ‘Human Rights Council’ bans criticism of Islam

The UN ‘Human Rights Council’ decided this week that it is forbidden to criticize Islam because “religious issues can be “very complex, very sensitive and very intense…This council is not prepared to discuss religious matters in depth, consequently we should not do it.” From now on, only religious scholars would be permitted to broach ‘religious matters’ before the Council.

So if you have a problem with a practice that is barbaric and inhuman you can’t ask the UN Human Rights Council to intervene. Not if that practice just so happens to be sanctioned by some nutjob that believes the practice is blessed by what he calls God. And yeah, I know that these same nutjobs believe that they also have the right to put out a hit on me for making the allegation. I am not only a non-believer, I am an infidel. An infidel that couldn’t care squat what some wacko Grand Sheikh says.


The ban came after a heated session on Monday, when the representative of the Association for World Education (AWE), in a joint statement with the International Humanist and Ethical Union, denounced female genital mutilation, the penalty of stoning for adultery and child marriage as sanctioned by Islamic law. Egypt, Pakistan and Iran angrily protested, interrupting the AWE speaker, David Littman, with no less than 16 points of order, and succeeding in getting the Council’s proceedings suspended for over half an hour.

It is especially peculiar that Shia Iran aligned itself with the Sunni nations of Egypt and Pakistan.

Imran Ahmed Siddiqui, the representative from Pakistan, echoed the ever-echoing refrain of all Islamic apologists in the West, when he complained that Littman’s initiative on genital mutilation, stoning and child marriage amounted to an “out-of-context, selective discussion on the Sharia law.” He asked that Littman not be allowed to speak: “I would therefore request the president to exercise his judgment and authority and request the speaker not to touch issues which have already been debarred from discussion in this Council.”

So there are certain things we can’t bring up at the dinner table we call the United Nations? Even if it is a chat about barbaric practices sanctioned by the radical offshoot of a religion by some Grand Poobah that issues a fatwa and justifies it as something consistent with Sharia law?

This is a form of madness, in my opinion.

I thought that the word Islam was supposed to mean peace. But for radical Islamists, peace requires remaining silent on the matters of genital mutilation, child marriages and the stoning to death of female adulterers. If you ignore those and of course those pesky little jihads then radical Islam is pretty chill. Unfortunately, diplomats from Egypt, Pakistan, and Iran are enabling the radicals by refusing to challenge these extremist views.

This is about the Sharia law.” Pakistan’s Siddiqui added: “I would like to state again that this is not the forum to discuss religious sensitivity.” Why not? Again sounding notes that are increasingly familiar in any discussion of the elements of Islam that jihadists and Sharia supremacists use to justify oppression, Siddiqui explained: “It will amount to spreading hatred against certain members of the Council. I mean, it has happened before also that selective discussions were raised in the Council to demonize a particular group.” He addressed Costea: “So we would again request you to please use your authority to bar any such discussion again, at the Council.”

Oh! So we cannot discuss these matters because it might make some people look bad. Isn’t that the fricking point? Is it now considered not ok to address some of the most horrid abuses of human rights because if we did so it might offend someone?

Free Speech Dies at the UN

After more discussion, a recess, and another warning from the representative from Egypt, Littman was finally allowed to proceed. After noting that “almost 90% of the female population in the north of Sudan undergo FGM which, in many cases, is practiced in its most extreme form known as infibulation,” Littman declared: “We believe that only a fatwa from Al-Azhar Grand Sheikh Sayyed Tantawi – replacing the ambiguous fatwas of 1949, 1951 and 1981 – will change this barbaric, criminal practice, which is now growing even in Europe.”

At this point Egypt interrupted, complaining that “this is an attempt to raise a bad traditional practice to Islam. Sheikh Al-Azhar [Sayyed Tantawi] is the president of the largest and the biggest and the oldest Islamic university in the world.” He exclaimed: “My point is that Islam will not be crucified in this Council. That’s why we are challenging this ruling” – that is, Costea’s decision to allow Littman to deliver his address.

Crucifying Islam? This is at best a reprehensible statement. Islam does not practice Christianity. But these folks and their radical interpretation of Islam apparently believe that it is okay to make a mockery out of Christianity. Who would anyone complain to after all?

According to these insane people and their heinous form of religion, the mutilation of female genitalia is an honor. Yes, you read that right.

An honor.

Yet an Islamic legal manual endorsed by Al-Azhar states that circumcision is required “for both men and women” (‘Umdat al-Salik, e4.3). And Tantawi himself has said, according to Geneive Abdo, author of No God But God: Egypt and the Triumph of Islam, that female circumcision is “a laudable practice that [does] honor to women.”

So line up ladies. And let these self declared ministers of peace honor you. After all, it’s a religious tradition and you wouldn’t want to offend anyone.

Would you?

Not only does this shameful episode bode ill for the human rights of women in the Islamic world; it also represents another victory in the war against free speech that Islamic supremacists have been pursuing with particular energy lately, calling on Western authorities to prosecute Dutch politician Geert Wilders for his film Fitna and Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard for his drawing of Muhammad with a bomb in his turban, and in general to outlaw what they perceive as insults to Islam.

You might imagine that with a name like Pagan I might understand a thing or two about discrimination and distortion of what I practice as a religion. As old as my religion is there is one thing that has been a principle from the start. Men and women are equals. And the law applies to everyone.

So if my point of view offends you please know that I am the one offended. Because my religion requires that I speak out when anyone is treated with less respect than which they are entitled by the Goddess. This latest incident at the UN is a sad reminder that the task of rooting out the hatred that fuels much of the terrorism is difficult and, ironically, being thwarted by the very people who suffer its consequences. We need to be able to talk about difficult things in international fora. If we cannot discuss the matter then what other alternative remains but to fight? That’s not a guaranteed path for world peace if you ask me.

Read the comments Here


23 Comments:

Blogger Natasha said...

I posted right after you did on ws, its typical over there--Cult of Personality, and it was Colonized Long,Long time ago,

needless to say my post didn't go through--surprise surprise.

You are welcome to come post over at WAMI,

not many Independent thinkers left anymore eh, LOL. I almost married into Islam, I have seen the oppression of women firsthand and what can I say--

most western women just have no grasp of what Sanctioned STATE TOTALITARIAN THEOCRATIC PATRIARCHY is, they really don't. To even compare the oppression here on levels with what women endure in Iran or Afghanistan or Somalia is just laughable,

and its not to say that oppression and misogyny here isn't misery, it sure is, but there is hope here, there isn't any hope for women/girls in those regimes,

Iran has the highest percentage of female suicide rates before the age of 30 in the World. THAT is oppression,

what you run into here is a lot of fricking stupidity, I say it like it is, just fricking stupidity. Europe too, and European women are paying for it, Big time, [rape rates against infidel women are shooting through the roof and the so called feminist left has pretty much said to them, so what]

and now that many of them See it--its kind of too late, once that demographic is 10%, its demands for Sharia and the pandering governments there may very well give it to them, and thats when the shit will hit the fan. [of course, something too to keep in mind, the worst countries where rapes against infidel women, is those same countries that are very tolerant of trafficking of children and women in sex slavery...duh, go figure, you know...]

You were very brave in posting what you did and all I can say is Right on! THANK YOU, you have NO idea,

how much your post there encouraged me, and it was the colonization of that place that inspired me to start WAMI, that and dealing with the sell outs in the far left for the years I did--you think WS colonization and drinking the cultural relativist kool-aid is bad, its Worse in far left parties.

The anger you feel is understandable, believe me, the women in Iran, in Afghanistan, in Palestine who don't support the crack downs on women's human rights or the fanatic haters,

are so fed up with the western apologetics, its Extremely difficult for them,

EVERY TIME, EVERY SINGLE TIME feminists in the west pander to the misogynist filth in those regimes/cultures/and all the 'excuses' they don't realize--they reinforce the gates of hell around those women,

they make their work for liberation and struggle So much more difficult--and you hit the nail on the head,

the propaganda Posers who claim 'liberalism' are anything But, its a flat out deception and what is scary is that its working...but its working because there is a real ignorance of the Quran, the Hadiths, the systems, the proverbs that make the misogynist statements here against women look tame in comparison.

And they refuse to take heed or warning, even when its Muslim women who are against Sharia and the regimes telling them to be careful and if its anything that remotely looks like it could be right wing--they'll reject it. I am far from right wing, I am radical left,

but, you know, if a tsunami was coming, and I was on the shore, and some right winger came up to me and said, Hey, there is a tsunami coming in thirty minutes see the wave changes,

I'd be stupid as Fuck to sit there and go, you know you're a right winger and a racist and by golly I'll just sit here thank you very much...

Thats the equivalent really,of the stupidity and foolishness of so many 'feminists' here in America and in Europe...and yes, many leftists too.

The Tsunami is coming and I think, I'll do whats necessary to save myself, my daughter's and who I can...no matter how many may say, its not P.C. But it is, let me assure you, a lonely path,

it is NOT easy--but you do meet, people who are not duped, who do see, and when you do, you know,

you won't be the only one looking for higher ground. Welcome to the higher ground sister,

welcome to the higher ground. Nice to know there are more of us every single day, so take courage,

and love your blog btw.

Natasha
Director of WAMI
http://wami-womenagainstmaleimperialism.blogspot.com/

8:25 PM, June 30, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

thank you thank you thank you - all during the war I tried to get feminist to use the conflict to drive our foreign policy toward rights for Islamic women but oh no kissing the left's ass was so much more important and now the left has spit all over them for their trouble.

But Condi Rice in the Office of International Women's Issues has built 17 women's centers in Afghanistan - the link is through the picture of the women being shot in the stadium in the blue burka -( green column -favorite places).

Oh well I am excited about you - Chesler's Chronicles on the green column (click on favorite blogs at the top of the green column - go to -C-) is another bog to check out and be sure to read the comments at Pagan Power - they are encouraging.

THANK YOU SISTER -- IT IS SO GOOD TO FIND A SISTER - I WILL LINK TO YOU AS SOON AS I CAN. MY HAND TO YOURS - MY HEART TO YOUR HEART.

9:10 PM, June 30, 2008  
Blogger Hype-Jersey said...

I'm sorry you were tossed off a blog. You will find a place that better suits you anyway. There are a lot of innertubes out there and you'll find or make one just right for you.

Peace.

10:59 PM, June 30, 2008  
Blogger Natasha said...

Well I come from it in a whole different way,

part of the underclass, lived with violence, misogyny, won't get into the details, but have seen first hand the results on a very intimate level of the sex industry and the abuses, then, a brief time, was intimate with Islam--my starter days in far leftism, and I mean, militant communist-socialist I was, [I'm independent left-anarchist now]

and the right was the enemy, I still am not in favor of the right, but...

growing up I had been involved with human rights activism, you see it was part of how I escaped the hell I was in, growing up, that and reading. From eight years old, I suppose I was a morbid kid.

Anyway to make a long story short, coming from the more revolutionary side of the left, I saw the betrayals to women's human rights, the indifference and, tragically, the tolerance and even the condoning/desire for misogynist systems within many in the far left [men] and the women, the women who pander to that, internalized misogyny, [there are a few who haven't bought into tyranny ideology but they like me, find the left becoming more and more hostile to those not willing to bow down to theocracy and State rule with iron fist.]

but I think, a transformation happens to those who are so filled with rage/hate that they lose sight of whats good,

so I confront it militantly [a bit to where it scares some I think but if they came from the background I have they'd understand--its one thing to read about terror, another to live under it, and to know it firsthand],

or to see it actually unfold--and though I haven't lived under Sharia, I've seen the women who have, seen the abuses within many Muslim families here in the states, and seen the firsthand damage to women in the sex industry, why I do the work against trafficking/prostitution that I do/and homeless advocacy--

but there is this separation people do, away from the knowledge of terror because its extremely difficult for most to perceive or even think about--its much easier to believe the lies, the deception, the pacifications,

that and there is Such a denial. I can understand that, what I do have a hard time with is those who do understand a little about the pain that misogyny causes yet they choose willingly to either prop it up or to be indifferent to it, them, them type of people I don't have a lot of tolerance for.

In all the journey I took from what I read before I got involved with the revolutionary left and saw, the absolutism and the embracing of this cold, callous hate--there really Are those who truly just lust for power at any expense,

and they truly do not care how much suffering it causes, they are so sold on ideologies that humans are just 'things' to them...some of that is result of materialism,

but I think some of it comes from choosing hate time and time again to where it becomes easier to not feel empathy and to become cold and dull, lifeless inside. I've worked with people like that,

and when they get to that stage, there simply is no reasoning with them. That I think--is what many have a hard time believing, that humans can choose to be that cruel and callous. We live in a society that is relatively free from terror, not wholly, but somewhat, one can find terror here, suffering and misery,

but not to the extent to where its on such a state level, so engrained (sic) and so internalized, that few even think anything is wrong with it. In totalitarian societies, thats exactly what it is,

generations that have only known terror and fear and forced subjugation and violation to Free Will.

For example, many focus on the forced veiling of women, and many say, its just their culture, etc etc., but they don't stop to ever think,

not only is it forced via social pressure, threat of death and on a state level, but,

the lack of freedom, it might not seem a big deal to many, but just imagine, never once, feeling what it is, to have the wind blow through one's hair,

something so natural and free, yet for millions they are robbed of that, simply because they are women and inferior/subjugated. Women, many here don't think, what that truly is, to lose a freedom like that,

you don't always understand the preciousness of freedom until its taken from you.

I think Hannah Arendt said it well when she said, the social question, is driven by misery, but more so, by the desire for freedom and its freedom that surpasses or pushes aside the misery [paraphrase, not verbatim], meaning, misery is depravity, dehumanization, no doubt,

but if there is freedom, there is a level of hope and a fire that stirs within us to fight that misery--take the freedom away,

all that is left, is misery with despondency.

That, that is what I think, many don't grasp---we take freedom for granted here, and not to say there aren't limits to freedom here, there sure is, we don't live in utopia and many are not as free as those with the resources, BUT,

in comparison to totalitarian societies, its heaven in comparison.

It was several Muslim women trapped in dungeon lifestyles, here in the States, no kidding, if they defy their brothers and fathers and uncles will see to them, very fast,

every thing they do, say, hear and see is monitored, they live in prisons in their homes--but they'll tell you, its better than whence they came,

because at least here,there Are some, legal protections. So many think domestic violence and misogyny here is on the same level, well, in many cases it is, but as one Muslim sister told me with tears in her eyes, I'll never forget it as long as I live,

she said, "but You don't understand, you have laws, you have people who are against these things, where we are from...there is nothing but condoning and demands for these things and any who dare challenge or try to change laws are put to death in horrid ways."

Her mother handed me a copy of the Sharia, and Komenie's book--it was all I needed,

reading those two books, that she put on my lap--was all I needed to be convinced.

I walked away, those sisters though--still live it it, they are the Lolitas, they have no where to go...no system that will protect them, and cultural relativists here making it even more of a trap for them...

there are women here also trapped in worlds of hell, I know, I come from living for some time in that world--but still,

its a huge difference, at least here, for now, there is some laws--they aren't always enforced, but they are there. There is hope,

for millions of women and people, there is no hope, and that is something that far too many just don't grasp. We have oppression here, yes, poverty, yes, misogyny yes, violence towards women, yes,

but, we don't have the vast numbers of women and children living in a hell on earth here, like they do in so many places, there are some who do live in hell here in the West, they do exist, but not in the Numbers that they do in fascist societies--they not only are oppressed, they are living hell on earth.

And when one truly gets that in their gut--Then they know, what freedom really is.

Sad, though, I think most Americans and Westerners [left, feminists included] seriously do not have a clue---but they will if they don't start taking the seriousness of the threat and not be so gullible to every lie out there. The Russians too believed the dictatorship of the workers would deliver them from absolutism and Tsarist terror,
they soon found that the terror they knew, was nothing compared to the terror of Stalinism and totalitarianism on levels that to even breath a word of insult was a threat to their entire life and to their families.

Or the refusal to see the dangers in the Third Reich--or those who were so nihilistic and depraved they simply didn't care...and what IS so scary, is not only do we have that indifference here, we have those that are embracing that type of totalitarianism thinking its a necessity to throw off other creeping fascisms. The indifferent, the apathetic, the depraved, the materialists, the elites and those who waller in self indulgence and hedonism--

simply do not get whats at stake. I'm afraid by the time they do, it might be too late. I hope, for our children's sake,
that I am wrong.

12:14 AM, July 01, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

No my friend I just came from the left earlier than you did -into feminism in the 1970s and now work with either side where it furthers my efforts for women's liberation. Do you think I give a f--k if I have to work with Bush or Republicans to get me to soldiers who are building women's centers in Afghanistan? Centers which will become underground domestic violence shelters guarded by armed women's police corps? No, I will work with Satan. Because the left and the right are all the same in the end. Male theory and it is all talk.

Women must manipulate power to free our sisters and our selves. I am working for Hillary now but she is limited also.

I don't ask if it is left or right - I ask if it can be used to further the liberation of women.

Now listen, you must go to Chesler's Chronicles right now. She had a gathering at her house of the old left to discuss how their movement has become a tool of fascism and she wrote about it here:

http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/

Her work will help you in her work. I will write more about your post later.

11:56 AM, July 01, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

PS Your childhood is just like mine - that is why we see it and they don't - we lived it.

11:59 AM, July 01, 2008  
Blogger Natasha said...

Thank you I'll be reading the site today,

its nice to know we are not alone. It think there is more of us out there, just not pulled together,

you know too though, a lot of it is lack of resources and so many women who are barely making ends meet--and its getting worse. LOL you know I still get emails from some in the old party--NOW they are like, paying attention to Afghanistan, because a MAN was sentenced to death for speaking up against women's rights abuses--

NOW they take notice, before it was, "we'll get to you later or the Clincher",

"you're hysterical, crazy, imbalanced, insane, hate men",

girl I've heard it all. I think we all have--but the revelation to me couple of years ago as far as how deep this infiltration of fascism has become,

was when I mailed some info to a couple of powerful mainstream feminist organizations about some serious propping up of sex trafficking abuses by some in far left--

and it was silenced, I'm talking iron door clamp down.

Then I knew, it isn't just the far left-its in the left too. Two years ago,

so I'm not surprised to see how some of the mainstream isn't coming to Hilary's defense in regards to the media/misogyny--not surprised at all. It has been in the works for a very, very long time. And its a lot deeper embedded than what most realize.

1:02 PM, July 01, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

ME TOO !! All through the war I mailed the old feminists and said let's organize--- Bush needs us to legitimize his war - we can get big bucks for women under Sharia - the Office of International Women's Issues is starving for support. OH NO they said and the hammer came down - then I realized they had been co-opted by the left and the corporate democrats who had operatives on their boards who hired the staff.

Now I am doing PUMA and will be the WI coordinator. We mean to set up an independent voice within the democrat party (or without if it comes to that) for the working class. We will organize for 2012 and run for election the Clintons and politicians like them.

If the Repubs get in 2009,we will still have the State Dept Office of Womens Issues (OIWI)but without Condi Rice and her band of feminists, I do not know how strong it will be -- Rice is a single childless pro choice woman who never wore a veil while visiting with the theocrats.

If BO gets in 2009,Sen.Biden has pledged to replace OIWI with this:
http://www.greenconsciousness.org/weblog/2007/11/international-violence-against-women.html

Dems always think if you change the by-laws things will improve. So they spend all their time changing the rules and when push comes to shove they ignore the rules they wasted all our time and money arguing about.

So women will lose two years while this new office gets set up and the Muslim women who believed us, and left their homes, will be left to the mercy of the theocrats during that time.

I will work to stop this abandonment BS as best I can.

1:36 PM, July 01, 2008  
Blogger Natasha said...

suggestion, tell those working with you,

do some research on the split/and issues within the Democratic Socialists, and look into Peace and Freedom Party in CA--and follow the trail--not just the internal divisions,

but the externals. Thats all I can say about it here,

but the developments within the past three years, interesting indeed.

8:06 PM, July 01, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8:31 PM, July 01, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

Tasha

Why would we waste time on that crap while women are burning? If you have to do it for a paper fine - Phyllis is an author so she writes books.

But once I left the left I stopped caring about their stupid little wars. There is real work to do. I
only try to show women how the current leftist values do not work to liberate or protect women. Other than that I am not going to spend time on them nor am I going to read the Quran/Koran. I can see what's in front of me.

8:34 PM, July 01, 2008  
Blogger Natasha said...

"I only try to show women how the current leftist values do not work to liberate or protect women."

Exactly, and why Knowing what is transpiring in the far left/left right now would do just that--

here's the thing, they All have feminist platforms, and tragically women see them and believe they are legit, especially when they use 'token' women to do push the message forward.

Its deceptive, but like you said, good example is the colonization of women's space, they aren't the only ones. Its the connections between groups such as CAIR and the changes within party leadership and platforms within past three years that reveals not just the agenda but How they are accomplishing the transition to establish a totalitarian state under theocracy---

the majority of feminists if they really Knew, and I mean knew what was transpiring they wouldn't be supportive of the polemic that is using feminism to set them up.

The problem with relying on right wing, don't get me wrong, I like Chesler, but most are not even going to listen BECAUSE the right wing has done just as much to harm women, in this country, and they Too, will use women's issues to manipulate women.

Women today, well citizens in fact are bombarded with propaganda on all sides, and its clever propaganda, sure, some of it can be seen for what it is, but a lot of it is so subtle that even the progressives are being duped.

Specific points are good because knowledge is power, for example, if I was to walk up to a woman who is in the projects and tell her to vote for McCain because Obama is this and this, she's going to most likely scoff, because She knows the right wing isn't going to do anything to elevate her position/rights and in fact they are the very ones who are cutting aid to domestic violence shelters and rape crisis centers [fact],

but then, here somes the left, with the we believe in women's rights and this, that, and Any question to them regarding one issue that works against women they will revert or evade it with very clever techniques.

BUT if you know where they betray the very principles they so claim, Thats a different story. The reason the far left has the power they do, especially in the influence in this upcoming election is that people are buying into the propaganda.

As for knowing the Quran, not that women should like read it BUT they need to have an understanding about the Hadiths, because its not just Sharia law, and they need to understand the basic precepts of Islam,

because ignorance, such as what you see on Women's Space, is just that--this belief that its only the 'fundies' or that its only 'culture', or that its like Christianity [Old Testament] or that all patriarchy/violence is the same world over,

and its on That -- that feminists especially are being duped. Its one thing for the right wing to blast the left, but here's the problem with the reliance on the right--

They have been propping up these regimes for years, they had not a problem with how women were treated, especially when the Islamists were hand in hand in bed with the Anti-Communists lot. Now they've switched sides [and ironically the left in this country is extremely ignorant of the treatment and history of the left IN those Islamic countries].

Most simply reject the right, and honestly, for damn good reason. They are Just as if not more, hypocritical than the left. The left is just in this day and age, stupid,

don't know how else to say it. That and they've been taken over by 'race nationalists', that self-determination of peoples, Which is exactly the horse that the Islamists are riding on, its our 'culture' and its imperialist of you to tell us what to do, etc etc etc,

and that is Exactly how they are manipulating false guilt, especially in regards to addressing women's human rights, and why though there is knowledge of the abuses,

there is this fallacy, this belief that its a social or tribal or culture problem, rather than an INSTITUTIONALIZED AND POLITICIZED RELIGION.

Too much myopic thinking/lens, and if we do not begin to call the propagandists on their lies and we Can't do that, if we don't even know the specifics,

they'll continue to mislead. Take FGMs for example, the claim is that its a culture practice, not a religious one. FALSE

Muhummad gave his blessing and grace to the practice, in the Hadiths and said, not to cut too deeply. That is why, no matter what the reforms, they are overturned time and time again, especially when nations are under Sharia,

you can't reform whats in the Hadiths, doesn't matter if there is Sharia or not. If their prophet blessed or sanctioned it, thats final. THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND, and they won't understand if they are ignorant of how political Islam works.

If you confront the left's apologetics they come back with the racism/xenophobia retort--or that you are a conspiracist (sic) and most believe them, people don't Read specifics and facts anymore. They rely on visuals and sound bytes.

But if you know some specifics and the reasons for the strategies behind the deception, and can give empirical evidence of such, then That, That the propagandists can't rebuke or rebuff so easily...

know the facts. Fascism is winning because people think fascism is just Hitler, they don't understand how fascism works or that fascism has varieties in theory just as feminism does, etc.

In other words, Why the means to the ends? And for women's rights, this is extremely relavent, Why the compromise and selling out of women's rights ON BOTH SIDES, RIGHT AND LEFT, and what for?

Its not just bad ole Muslims hating women--there is a Reason for the oppression and repression of women/girls especially in totalitarian societies,

just as there is a reason for the Right to focus on women's rights when its 'convenient' for them to do so--good analysis on this is Fanon's "Algeria Unveiled" and

why humanism was defeated in Algeria, The ‘Death of the Subject’ Explained, by James Heartfield, Sheffield Hallam University, 2002.

Its not enough to just know that there are horrid abuses, women need to know and understand why those sacrifices of women's rights and human rights by both sides, right and left, are in fact strategies to control and/or nationalize the masses for one reason or another.

If women don't know the specifics or details or strategies, and not just women but anyone who cares about human rights,

they won't know how to fight them. Women's Space is one of the most radical of women's rights boards out there--and if They've been colonized/duped by the lies of Muslims who 'pose' as liberals/moderates,

that tells you Just how serious and dangerous ignorance is. Women are afraid to look at details because the propagandists and Nationalists [race, not just white either] throw up the racist card at them,

and the left shuts up. And they are succeeding at this with the 'self-determination of people's ideology, that does have some valid points, its liberal, its democratic, its minority rights,

its also the Trojan Horse that is being used to crush every liberal and civil and human right that we know and have.

Knowledge is power, knowledge of details, not just generalizations. Only one way to bring that Trojan Horse down,

and thats to know the weak points. Trying to take it down with one swoop at the thing, won't do it. Its too big, too massive and too clever. Not only that, but the citizens are jumping on the damn thing taking a pony ride on it.

WAMI
Women Against Misogynist Imperialism

12:56 PM, July 02, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

I like and agree with most everything you said.

The Right is useful now and we use it where we can, mostly in education. I use it to agitate for women's programs in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The right will publish what most liberal publishers will not. Spencer with Phyllis as a consultant wrote a pamphlet titled "Islam's violent oppression of women" and Horowitz published it:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/4CDF1CEC-779C-4699-A123-A8992F4D9219/5f35012e-a9b7-4553-abac-efed7da6c983.pdf

You might get published a similar pamphlet showing how the left intersects with Islamic oppression as per your last comment. Phyllis will help you get it published and she will write an introduction.

I think all of this is good but I am not into it. I do not think any amount of info will convince the Heart's of the world. They can be radical feminists on the touchy feely things but they are soft on any issue where they have to choose women over their left political perspective. They won't do it. They will lose their "community" and they know it. Racism is the sacred cow of the left and cultural relativism is their religion. It is so old.

Very few women are like us - we are on the edge of the cliff and there will never be many with us. But we find the way into the valley or at least serve as a warning to others. There are no rewards and many dangers but our childhood's compel us.

So there it is.

You as a scholar can do a lot - many women are writing on this issue. Phylis wrote two books I love.

1 The Death of Feminism -on the feminist refusal to understand the threat of Islamic fascism, and,

2. Women's Inhumanity to Women


Blessing to you - Victory in our life time - Joy in the Struggle.

1:46 PM, July 02, 2008  
Blogger Natasha said...

As an independent with a class analysis I run into the same problem with the right as I do the left--Chesler doesn't allow my posts any more than Heart does.

bottom line--independents with no party affiliation or loyalty to either right or left and especially independents with a class perspective are not welcome in either of the camps, not in This country anyway. Which is tragic,

because it Is in that adhesion to ideological 'purity' within both right and left that is the downfall--divide and conquer.

The problem with the right is that they don't want to confront the economic imperialism--that would mean some drastic changes to privilege and the slavery/wage slavery that they are entitled to under the protections of that system.

The left on the other hand wants to establish a state-central [similar in more ways than opposing ironically to the right] rule,

in other words, Chesler and like are very good at pointing the finger at Islam/left and on many merits I totally concur with them, but when it comes to the blatant exploitation and abuses that the right protection of capitalist entitlement causes to masses of women worldwide and here at home--on that they refuse, absolutely refuse to do anything about.

To me they are just two faces on one quarter...and the splinter polemics from those two, are so assimilated into versions of the old that all we do is turn the wheel so to speak--but remaining stuck in the mud.

The horrible thing however, very similar to women in the former Yugoslavia is having to choose between the worse of two evils--both however, are detrimental to women's human rights.

Phylis does exceptional work in confronting the cultural relativism--but we also need to confront the theocratic patriarchy/misogyny in This country within the right--especially the elitism,

because its those very same elites who are making the economic pacts and deals with the Islamists.

Good example of this--Iran, the investments in Iran by none other than the profiteers on the right, speaks volumes. The numbers of CEOS within the Right wing camp, that have investments in Iran is growing--

neither give a damn about women's rights--but they both, will use token women, to further agendas using women's human rights as utility to do so--once they have what they want--

its back to the screw the women.

Fortunately I'm not working to build a group such as Women's Space--but in every historical event where there was totalitarian and nationalist/fascist forces at work, there have been the independent intellectuals who,

ironically did some of the best works on analysis, problem is, no body listens to them. Not saying I'm an intellectual--not even and I'm no scholar,

but I strongly believe there is need for analysis and strategy Outside of both right and left.

Whether it does any good, don't know, but the need is there.

2:35 PM, July 02, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

Wait a minute - are you saying you made a comment and Chesler would not publish it? Impossible - she Will publish it as soon as she checks - i did not finish reading your comment before i wrote this but tell me if by tomorrow you do not get published.

2:46 PM, July 02, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

Chesler isn't right -she is just like us - a feminist. The difference between us is that both Chesler and I will work with both the left, right and center wherever there is an opening as long as it is to our end. You seem to think working with them makes us one of them. We are feminists. We are outside male politics. We do not belong to them - we use them. We are very few - we must work with others where we can. Even the Amazons fought along side other tribes in coalition.

That you do not do this is ok - find your own way. I do not care - it does not make me think less of you. I will work with whoever and wherever I can -so will Chesler. She has suffered immensely because all her friends Gloria Steinham - many others NOW - all the women she organized with at the beginning abandoned her because of her stand on Islam. Many of her real friends died.

Which reminds me there is another woman you should know about Donna Hughes:
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/
hughes/

3:06 PM, July 02, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/
hughes/

3:08 PM, July 02, 2008  
Blogger Natasha said...

Yes I posted two,

one on the discussion about the new left, explaining a bit about the merging of forces within the political Islamists/left and the remnants of Stalinist nationalism, e.g., what you see in parts of Africa, Kenya for example and the liberation movements there,

around the self-determination movements which is why we are seeing the infiltration of groups such as Azteca and the Islamists and the Black Nationalist-Marxist movements in the left,

that wasn't allowed

and then another comment on the intervening in Sudan, that it possibly would be a strategy by the political Islamic forces in Africa/Middle East esp when you take in consideration China's backing of Sudan,

that wasn't allowed either.

I'm used to it, its not the first time, and I get it on the liberal left too--one I think its because of the prejudice against the underclass, you know that belief that we're all crazy and dumb,

and I don't write formally so that has a lot to do with it I'm sure, and I don't like 'fit' in with groups, group think, but I read, all the time, and I read non-fiction, have for years and I connect the dots some what, people tend to think thats nuts.

Like for example, Obama's faith based social services expansion..thats clever strategy, if one wants to create a base for tolerance of theocratic courts and rules, using freedom of religion to do so. Mention that however and boom,

you're seen as a nutcase.

Myopic thinking--very few look at the long term...but the fact is, I saw these strategies discussed in the far left,

three years ago, they were discussing these strategies--actually longer than that but it seems about three years ago they went full speed.

But try relating this and immediately someone [on the left esp] comes on with the discrediting and the I'm nuts.

Its infuriating as ever, and its like I see these so called moderate Muslim feminists popping off on feminist or liberal boards about how moderate Islam is and oh, its just hair pulling frustrating because I know how this whole propaganda shit works.

From the inside, not just from seeing it from the outside--

put it this way, Horowitz, got it, he saw it, but then he went completely over to the right, and I saw how that worked on the campuses with the academic freedoms campaign--at least from where I saw it, his message lost a lot of potency. The neo liberals and progressives jumped all over it,

and now that one campus that I know of, is like under the control of the right, but here's the irony of that,

the increase of tolerance for Islamist anti-semitism and the changes even within gender studies. Its Stalinist, to the core.

The enemy within--and if not for a few others who also see it, I probably would question my sanity,

but there are others who see it too, and they aren't right wing, some are left wing--but they are being silenced just as much as I am.

There is a reason for this, no doubt in my mind.

6:13 PM, July 02, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

I am writing to Phyllis - I presumed you published as Natasha or Tasha

6:49 PM, July 02, 2008  
Blogger Natasha said...

I posted on the Pajamas Media--the link that you listed,

was that the correct one?

anyway--not only has WS been colonized, been doing some homework--it seems some who wanted me off, are lo and behold Obama supporters and Islamists apologetics,

well, gee, LOL, go figure, well that makes some sense now. She's in a tiffy because I flat out told her, sell out,

I am So sick to death of sell outs, the equivalents of the branch of the IRA that sold out half of Ireland to the Brits.

Anyway--the situation in Europe is getting worse for women, both European women and Mulsim women who are caught up in the Islamic laws being forced on them, and the European gov are actually pandering to the Islamists--forced marriages are on the rise, with brutal penalties if the girls defy, they are sent back to their birth places and killed,

Danish Muslims, Norway, Italy, UK, in UK its really bad. These women are so afraid they won't even report to the police if they think the police will aid in their forced returns,

I am working on two reports, one on these cases within this past year,

and another on worker's rights abuses that are similar, especially trafficked labor-women.

I am going to focus on cases in Europe and America--will let you know when I'm done with them.

WAMI

12:41 AM, July 03, 2008  
Blogger Natasha said...

not sure if my post went through--I posted on the Pajama's Media, maybe its not the correct sight,

Anyway--just to say,

I find your directness So refreshing, and for that Thank you.

Its nice to see, in today's climate I run into so much manipulative bullshit on forums and blogs,

I'd rather deal with directness even if they are totally opposed to me than the sweetness and then the b.s. mindgames, that is tragically typical on a lot of forums/blogs today.

So, thank you, for being direct, to the point and just putting it out there. You didn't resort to insults or evading,

Wow, there might be some hope in the world, LOL. Also like your resource-blog roll, you've done your research, it shows. WLUML is a good site, so is Namazie's blog, she's an inspiration,

there was a literature for women NGO a couple of years ago, that was working to protect/create awareness of women authors, poets, worldwide and there were several under Fatwas in various countries, but I've not been able to locate it this past year.

Not sure if they shut down or what, a lot of the Iranian women's rights blogs were also taken down [gov forced], most are in prison right now.

That and I'm finding some of the ones being attacked with viruses/hackers, and obvious those attacks are coming from the political termites in the west.

Are you aware of the situ in Minnesota?

or up state New York? [there is an entire community, that is fenced off, and strictly ruled and armed--I hate to even Think of the terror those women in that community are living under].

Natasha
Director of WAMI

1:39 AM, July 03, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

Yup pajamas media is the right one - she did not send me an email yet and she usually responds quickly so she might be on vacation or in the hospital again -- we will wait and see -- she will respond eventually == she publishes almost everything so I know she will publish you

6:12 AM, July 03, 2008  
Blogger Greenconsciousness said...

I am laughing - because you write I went over to woman space to see what they wrote. I saw Heart only allows comments she agrees with on her blog so the whole comment section is a long agreement with her original post -- what a bunch of tools. And it is the most ignorant bunch of tripe I ever read. They have a first grade understanding of Islam - what their Islamic teachers told them in their woman studies class. They are comparing it to all kinds of religions in western countries and to religions 200 years ago.

AND they call lesbians queers.!?! God I am so glad I don't have to relate to that kind of woman anymore. Dopes and Dupes.

6:29 AM, July 03, 2008  

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